Read on.
A few years back I did a blog how one kind of American Indian Sign Language (ISL) used by deaf native American Indians was already vanishing (or it may have vanished by now) because, ironically so, young deaf Native American Indians were forced to use or in this case had no recourse but to communicate in ASL at deaf residential schools they were sent to. And by doing so they gradually lost an important identity and Indian heritage when Indian Sign Language was passed on down through generations. A sign language that was used by both deaf and hearing Indians within their own community or tribe. This disappearance was an unplanned but systematic move over time by a predominately white Deaf culture and community where ASL gradually overtook their ISL preferences even though historically many of the signs in ASL today were derived from or have similar signs seen in Native American ISL.
Below is a passage on how ASL (supposedly the 3rd or 4th most popular language in the U.S. - a highly dubious claim.), English (number one language in the U.S.), and American Deaf culture have helped erode the Keresan Pueblo Indian Sign Language (KPISL) in New Mexico into extinction already. A native Indian sign language used by both deaf and hearing Keresan Pueblo indians.
KPISL is not much used among the pueblo’s younger generation owing to their learning school English, ASL, or signs that follow the spoken English word order. Before the 1990s, American Indian Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing tribal members usually left home to attend a residential school for the deaf located far away. At the school, there was usually no formal instruction of American Indian or American Indian culture and signs; only Deaf culture and ASL were taught, leading many American Indian students to join the “Deaf World.” After graduation, the students had to make difficult decisions about where and how to establish themselves: on the pueblos with hearing families and friends, in urban areas with other Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing people, or in border towns with limited access to both groups.Now, I'm curious.
English has now become the dominant language for many Pueblo Indians. Its use, as well as continued contact with and influences of the dominant culture, has served to erode some of the traditions and values of the Pueblo Indian culture. As a result, KPISL, a valuable piece of American Indian heritage, may be slipping into extinction as well.
Has Mr. Edwin Black actually discussed native American Indian tribes and their culture throughout the U.S. and how they were essentially but systematically "eliminated" in favor of having them integrate into a predominately white culture and English language at his lecture in California to willing Deaf audience? Did he also discuss the eradication of the Keresan Pueblo Indian Sign Language with the help of a predominantly white Deaf culture in favor of ASL along with English, too? Noticed the eerie similarity?
A challenge to the great Mr. Edwin Black, the "eugenics expert."
If you truly think ASL, the Deaf community and culture are in danger of going "extinct" or "eradicated" anytime soon by means of eugenics then best pay attention to the plight of KPISL first which was pushed aside in favor of ASL, English and, ironically, by a pre-dominantly white Deaf culture world. For all we know now it's probably an extinct Indian sign language and Deaf/hearing Indian culture by now a la the "Martha Vineyard" of the southwest. After all, you are the proclaimed "eugenics expert" and should have no problem in writing the next few eugenics articles on Indian Sign Languages used by deaf Native American Indian people and how such a language disappeared in favor of ASL. This is almost exactly how our English language and culture helped nearly destroy North American Indians’ own heritage, language and culture by forcing them to learn English and have them assimilate into American culture in order for them to “survive.” Not quite the Spanish Inquistion led by the great and cruel Torquemada. Yet they did survive and many of these North American Indian culture and heritage remain intact, even growing allowing them to pass on their heritage to the next generation. The forcing of Deaf North American Indians use ASL away from ISL could be seen as doing the same selfish act. And end up abandoning their own ISL for the sake of integration with the rest of the Deaf culture and community. The irony is overwhelming here considering what has happened with the Keresan Pueblo Indian Sign Language and the eugenics lip service on the so-called quickly disappearing Deaf culture, community and ASL.
What is rather disengenuous is to use emotionally laden words by Mr. Black such as "Eugenics – From California to Auschwitz, Implications for the Deaf Community" in the effort to appeal to emotions from the people of California. That's really reaching, not to mention doing the whole nine yards using Godwin's Law.
Now, folks. I could be wrong. Perhaps Mr. Edwin Black is truly concerned about the plight of a disappearing Deaf community, sign language and culture which has grown from few tens of thousands during the Martha Vineyard era of the mid- 1800s to now probably close to a million Deaf people in the United States today. General rule of thumb of my own is that the Deaf population accounts about 1/33rd of the current general population size and apply that ratio to any population year but it probably becomes an increasingly rough estimate going further back in time. With nearly a million Deaf people today using the 3rd most popular language in the United States I suppose all that is considered a vanishing act to Mr. Black for his podium thumping lectures on eugenics. Maybe he's seeing this an opportunity to push his books and stir his name into this pot of mess and gain a bit of notoriety and name reconition in the process? Free publicity I suppose. Who knows what his real agenda and feelings are but it's rather curious to use eugenics as a mean to help stop the AB2072 bill and put it out of existence. All in all this bill is a good bill and it will pass. As for the title of my blog? I'm making a point here if that's of any help.
39 comments:
I noticed you stated ASl was the 3rd most popular language (BSL is the 4th here), but is there not a difference between 'popular' and widely used languages? If you have (Just for example), 100m people that does not mean 33.33m are using and are ASL aware does it ?
Strange, my area the 3rd most popular language in WIDE use, is Polish. Wales showed polish subtitles recently.
You've raised a very important question here and I appreciate it. I can safely say that ISL is still in use today but they're scarce and very difficult to find. Not quite vanished yet and I can vouch that much.
Two years ago I had a meeting with a historian who also hold Ph.D on this subject, Indian Sign Language. At the meeting we recognize the need to preserve and document ISL. Numerous Native elders still know ISL today but the numbers are declining rapidly and will continue to decline.
And yes, you are correct in stating many deaf Native Americans forgot and lost their ISL after they were placed into ASL schools. I know of several native friends here in Arizona who testified to this important fact. They recall using ISL when they were small children but no longer remembers them today.
In short ASL colonized them and their original language.
Four years ago I attended a workshop provided by a deaf Native American individual. I was surprised to learn that some of the signs we use in ASL were very comparable to ISL. We then had a debate on whether it was appropriate to credit ASL as the original language or if the real credit belongs to ISL. The answer seems to be ISL because such language existed long before ASL surfaced.
Go and visit some of the Indian reservations that are out there and seek their elders. You're in it for a big surprise. These elderly people still remember their ISL but unfortunately their deaf generations are no longer using it unless they return home to communicate with their people. No longer using it because ASL has taken over and dominated their world.
It's one reason why I've compared the history of Native Americans with Deaf people. So many things are comparable and similar when we begin to study the long history of our Native brothers and sisters.
Remember Hocokan? It's a theory that were adopted and used by the Lakotas. It helped those who were emotionally angry, depressed or confused, due to loss of culture, language and more importantly, traditions. It helped them absorb losses and understand why things happen. And I thought it'd be a great tool for Deaf people as well but many Deaf people were not receptive to the idea.
A really great blog right there, Mike.
*claps hands*
I'd be happy to bookmark and spread this to every one of my old connections. .
Honest to God and even all kind of Idols, If I ever see the words on the conference wall "Deaf Native Indians' Worshop" and "Deafhood/No to qaudism", I'd definitely get in Native Indians' Worshop's room.
As of Mr.Black, no he's not concerned at all since he didn't bother to research the deaf History more deeper before pointing his finger at us/supporters as "eugenics".
Oh- one more thing--- it's an excellent idea for this link to be printed on the brochures for hearing parents of deaf babies in California.
-Laura/VooDoo Island
You did not do your homework properly, or you just made a biased information against Deaf/ASL. Not sure which one you did.
Who controlled education system and who approved to put Deaf Indians in the Deaf education system. Who have been responsible for destroying ISL.
It's governments and boards that were controlled by white and hearing, STUPID!
Deafchip
David,
I've done lots of research on this subject. Let me ask you one question. With deaf residential schools today and for over the last 5, 10 to 20 years after DPN with greater number and control of Deaf teachers, administrators and principles, has there been any formal instruction of American Indian or American Indian culture and signs for Deaf indians who come aboard? And to help them preserve their language and heritage intact?
Maybe because of ASL success it ironically helped play a role in displacing Deaf indian's ISL and cultural heritage (signing) in favor of an Americanized sign language?
Do a little thought experiment and perhaps understand that ASL and the Americanized Deaf culture have unwittingly helped play a role here instead of getting all snitty.
I know it gets a little uncomfortable knowing possibly that Deaf culture could have unwittingly played a role on eugenics which didn't exactly help various ISL survive. That's why I said in the beginning of my blog to try this little thought provoking exercise. Kind of silly for Mr. Black to go around a spout eugenics and ASL now, isn't it?
Oh, yeahhh.....
@Holism we had the same experience here, BSL would not and could not accommodate the Welsh language so ignored it completely. Users resisted adapting to a welsh language based sign, and originally most BSL courses were rooted in England where BSL is the closest to. When Wales held it's eisteddfod, which is a celebration of welsh culture, music. art, BSL users tried to use the equality law to demand they overrule the Welsh organisers who had rules only welsh should be used. TO add insult to welsh injury, the deaf demanded.... ENGLISH language access ! It is equally true of sign language and culture they are exactly like the English were, i.e. they refuse to learn other languages and demand everyone speaks theirs. Deaf attempted to colonise the welsh language using people ! One culture demanding another had no rights to theirs,while insisting WE all use theirs with them. They could not see the unfairness in that and abused the access law as well. They weren't finished yet, (deaf), they insist their fight for language and culture is the same as Welsh... irony on top of insult. For a culture and language to survive I suppose adopting and accepting an elite is essential... Does the native American, have a right to refuse ASL being used if the native culture is based on their own ? They HAVE to comply with equal access law ? I would say no. This is a case where access should not work.
David,
That was a naive answer on your part. It means one thing. You've not done any research on Native Americans and and their deaf children.
Most, if not all, Native American parents struggle with the idea of allowing their deaf children leave the reservation for the fear they would lose and forget their traditions, language and culture. For that reason they would usually argue against sending their deaf children off to a school / deaf school outside of their reservations.
In numerous cases the Native Americans would hide and keep their deaf children at home back in the reservation. It was done because they wanted their deaf children to maintain the privileges and benefits of learning Indian traditions, culture and language. The idea of sending their deaf children out to a deaf school was a very frightening notion for many Native American families.
It was the deaf educators, leaders and researchers that reached out and made connection with Bureau of Indian Affairs and Department of Education on what should be done for deaf Native American children. Mark my word on this one. I know several deaf educators who labored endlessly and recruited deaf Native Americans from some of the reservations here in Arizona and New Mexico because they thought it was inhumane to leave these deaf Indian children behind.
My father used to work at New Mexico School for the Deaf and told me personal stories on how some of the deaf staff worked long and hard to encourage tribal bands to send their deaf children to the deaf school. If it were not for some of the deaf staffs and if the Native Americans had it their ways, these deaf children would have remained at the reservation. Therefore their ISL would have been very much alive.
Why don't you come to Arizona or New Mexico with your wife and visit some of the reservations. Ask around and do your research like I have. Visit some of the schools within the reservations and research their histories. Better yet, talk to deaf Native Americans that I've talked to and get your facts together.
In many cases, it was the work of deaf people that pulled deaf Native American children out of reservations just so that they'd learn ASL.
You asked who approved the placement of deaf Indians into deaf education system. The answer is always the same. The parents. They have the ultimate and final say in this matter. But are pressured by deaf school's satellite programs, many times facilitated by deaf staffs and deaf educators.
Often times the parents would cave in and make the ultimate sacrifice, giving ASL the edge knowing that it'd mean loss of traditions, culture and language for their deaf children.
Mind you, everybody meant well here but you can't just disregard the ignorance that was practiced by ASL community as well when they did not recognize and appreciate ISL for what it was.
I mean, look at your very own comment here in this thread. That was sheer ignorance, a perfect example of what went wrong. Of course you would not know anything about it. You was born and raised inside of a closed society, that of deaf world. You need to get out more often and expand your horizon.
One more example for David.
Back in the late 1960's at New Mexico School for the Deaf, my deaf father worked as a house parent at the dormitory. There were some deaf Indian children under his care. Some of the deaf staff (house parents) tried to force deaf Indian children to sleep on their beds instead of the floor.
These deaf Indian children preferred the floor because it was how they slept back at home on the reservation. Some of the deaf staff wanted to change that so they had a staff style meeting to discuss this matter.
Some of the staff thought it was uncivilized and unhealthy. Some of the staff including my deaf father saw it as a culture / tradition value and thought they should not intervene.
According to my father they were allowed to sleep on the floor for as long as they choose to. Some continue to sleep on the floor for many years and some adjusted to the idea of using white man's so-called greatest invention, that of bed.
You see David, deaf staffs also played oppressive roles on deaf Indian children back then. This is not news.
I also grew up with some deaf Indian children in Idaho. When they first came to the deaf school I remember them using ISL. The deaf peers (deaf children) made fun of them. It was one way to force them to abandon ISL and learn ASL.
Here's other story for you David. One other house parent staff (my deaf uncle, in fact) was known as the 'barber' who always gave the boys hair cuts at the dormitory. He thought this deaf Indian boy needed a hair cut and made an effort to cut his hair. The boy fought back and refused to cooperate. The argument went out of hand and eventually led to a huge dispute between the school administration and Tribal Band. The boy won his rights to retain long hair because it was part of their tradition / religion. And yes, it was my deaf uncle who was being ignorant but he learned something valuable that week.
One other instance also occurred at Idaho School for the Deaf. Some time in the 90's they had a similar incident with a deaf Indian boy whose hair was quite long. The school felt it intervened with his education so they made an effort to give him a hair cut. Needless to say that the parents brought out the entire Tribal Band to the school and protested. Their rights were restored once again. The boy did not cut his hair. And yes, it was the doing of a deaf staff.
David, do yourself a favor. Gather your facts together before you point your finger at white & hearing people.
Cute. Trying to shift blame on ASL/Deaf people now, aren't we?
Fact-hearing admins have been a part of Deaf education for YEARS. Only in the recent years, Deaf people have begun serving as admins.
Do you really think the government will set up Deaf schools that specifically use ISL as a language of instruction? The government has had a long history of destroying Native culture and language, it's only natural that they would want to destroy ISL along with all native languages (please look up residential schools for Native Americans)
I also noticed in one of the comments that young Native Americans-hearing didn't know ISL as well and it wasn't because of them going to a Deaf school. It was because of the gov't attempts to destroy their language including ISL so your discussion is moot.
Deaf people were not responsible for the extinction of ISL. The government is.
You are right, ASL, like English, has become something of a colonizing language. But you are forgetting a major element -- it was not planned (at least not directly) that this would be the consequence.
Eugenics IS a planned elimination of a racial trait or racial/ethnic group. Therefore, it is entirely appropriate for Edwin Black to draw the connections to Deaf people and eugenics.
However, the fact DOES remain that we MUST cherish and attempt to preserve Indian SL, just like we MUST cherish and preserve ASL and Deaf culture. ALL cultures and languages have something to offer our world, and the loss of even one is something to be mourned. For Deaf people, it's personal as well.
Just talked to my good friend who is a Native Indian/Californian and she agrees that Indian's Sign Language still was and is the very first visual language in this country. The Native Indians use ASL just to get by and for social purposes as well. That's what I've been told by my good friend from California and what she said was very much like what Barry had stated here...
Laura/VoodDoo Island.
Oh yeeeaaaaah -imitating Randy Savage-
I don't think Edwin Black can answer that. You come up with very good point. I know few about ISL when I was little girl.
I do remember Barry TheHolism talk about Indian that America push them out... Ouch... that not right. Hey I was not born that time. If I do, I will try my best to stop that. Just like Barry try said for 2 year in blog/ vlog.
Mike, let you know that I did left you comment in your old blog name "ASL is Destroying Indian Sign Language". I wait for your prove my comment. I don't know if you think it too late to leave comment there....??
Jen
Thanks MM for sharing. That was a very interesting read. You're right about how essential it's for a culture and language to survive, by adopting and accepting an elite. It's already evident here in the United States as well.
Thanks again!
As I read this, our hand signs started first from Alaska straight down to South America respectfully. From one tribe to another, we cannot understand each other's tongue, therefore we use hand gestures which all tribes understand us.
My uncle once told me, we use gestures as to communicate with other tribes. Our speaking language isn't the same, but our hand gestures we can understand each other then we learn more from each other. Like Cherokee and Choctaw don't understand each other, thus they use gestures to communicate..
Then our deaf children are born, our ancestors taught us gestures/hand signs. Then the ISL formed or should we say "NASL" which is appropriate form of communication.
They have been going on since for years before Mr. Gallaudet first came to America and teach those children English Sign Language.
Schools cannot remove our ISL/NASL from us, they have NO right to force us to choose ASL or NASL. ISL/NASL is our primary language for deaf natives. We are so against schools' decision to force us. It's like forcing CI's on babies. Or the world forcing us to cease our total communication and force us to be robotic androids in society. No thanks.
We're proud Natives to use NASL and we're proud deafies to have total communication without CI, PERIOD!!
The proper name for "Indians" in USA is Native Americans and in Canada, it is either First Nations or Aboriginals To continue using that word show degradation to them.
If you people are really involved with them, you would know this a long time ago.
Thank you.
Dr. DonG,
You keep mentioning Eugenics...care to define the word for us and show us an evidence of Eugenics in this country?
Have you been smoking reefers lately?
Freezepop
I will make my vlog about your irresponsible and uncredible article. Mike, I want you to be aware that I'll hold you accountable.
DonG, eugenics do not apply here. There is no systematic planning on the eradication of Deaf people, its culture and ASL. That would rank right up there with 9/11 Truthers and space alien abductions. What Mr. Black is doing is an appeal to emotion and not about logic. It is totally disenguous to even suggest eugenics here. It becomes a non-sequitur.
David "Deafchip",
Hold me accountable? Over what? Do you know what a "thought exercise" is about?
A word to the wise, grow up David.
Deaf people aren't a different 'race', they have a different culture. Many Deaf seem to confuse the two over and over, even to the point of wondering which 'box' to check on the Census. There simply is NO Deaf race..
Eugenics is --"the study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding." This definition comes directly from dictionary.com.
No one is currently practicing eugenics on Deaf people in the US. To my knowledge eugenics has never been practiced in the US at all, except possibly in the early American south when slaves were 'breeded' like animals to enhance strength and endurance.
Genocide was practiced against our Native American cultures in the 18th and 19th C. Genocide has never been practiced against Deaf people here in the US.
When Deaf people insist they are another race, or accuse oralists of practicing eugenics or genocide, they sound ignorant.
In the late 19th and early 20th C, Native American children were forced from their homes, and sent to boarding schools to learn English and valuable skills so they could earn money and basically fit manage during the Industrial age. While it may have seemed cruel (and I agree it was!), today most Native Americans speak English, have embraced the 21st C and are happy with their TV sets, ipods and smart phones that their English educations have afforded. It's a shame that much of their culture was lost, but would be equally shameful if they were still living in unheated teepees subsisting on whale blubber.
Deaf culture today is at a cross roads. We've made considerable advances in technology in the past two decades that has literally changed thousands of lives and what it means to be 'deaf.'
No culture ever stays the same. We are all evolving all the time. Progress does not stop no matter who you are or where you live.
Some day Deaf culture as you know it will be as dead as the Chinook culture of the Pacific Northwest. There will be occasional parades to commemorate Deaf people of historical significance, and reminders of what it was like before technology made it possible for Deaf people to hear. People will marvel at it, and be thankful they don't have to live that way despite the beauty of sign language.
"Native American" is a Politically corrected word for an indian, a recent but unnecessary term concocted by pc fanatics to describe the indigenous peoples of North America. Most indians have no problem being called an indian, in general, and find that being called a Native American is an insult to their actual affiliation to a tribe. The pc term is too broad. Indians never regard themselves as native "American" because of their tribal affiliations and because their tribes weren't identified as "American" to begin with.
"Native American" need to be tossed out of the window. Stick with the preferred term of indian or identify the indians by their specific tribal affiliations.
Note: I lower-case the "i" in indian to differentiate from the Indian people of the nation of India. Ironically, there are several hundreds of "tribes" in India as recognized by the constitution of India.
No Mike. Unfortunately David (deafchipmunk) does not know the meaning of "thought exercise". I've monitored him for two years now and can safely assure you. He's so stuck inside of a closed society where people's thoughts are tightly regulated.
Just wanted to acknowledge what Kim has said and say that I really appreciate her insightful comment. Very true.
And yet you will realize that numerous Native American Elders are very worried about modern technologies, not because it's fun, addictive, convenient but because many of their people became spiritually disconnected. It's been said many times and it'll be said again... technology and the spirits do not mix. If you visit with some of the Elders out there they'll tell you this often.
Initially I did not understand what they meant by it but I understood it later after observing the situation. Perhaps you could do the same and begin to understand why too much modern technologies might not be a good thing.
As with everything else, it's important for each one of us to strike a balance, that of medium. It's no different for the Native Americans.
And again I really enjoyed your comment in this thread.
Rob,
I've heard this argument of yours many times and many times it has proven to be a futile argument.
I run into all sorts of people who would say indian was more appropriate and people who would say Native American was more appropriate. Instead of relying on information coming from people in general I made a decision some time ago to allow the Native Americans decide for themselves as to what they'd like for us to call them.
Native American seem to be their choice so who am I to say they're wrong? In Canada they call themselves First Nation so who am I to say they're wrong? And yet I've run into some Native Americans who call themselves indian too but they were not aware of the controversial indian v.s. NA arguments out there.
Regardless, it's not as simple as choosing one over another based on personal preferences. There is a reason for it. Some time ago the indians noticed how some indian nations such as Samoans, Hawaiians, and few others began to seek after funds that were available under BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs). The indians of north American got together and did not like the idea of losing their funds to general 'indian' population so their scholars decided to use Native Americans and First Nation in order to separate themselves from other types of 'indian' population. This was done to protect what was rightfully theirs.
You see, they found the need to separate themselves from generalized 'indian' term because there were so many different indian tribes in this world and some of the Native Americans felt the need to separate themselves from the generic label. Thus, the birth and usage of Native Americans and First Nation.
And yet many Native Americans do not find it offensive to be called indians. However when it comes down to protecting what's rightfully theirs they'll know to use Native Ameircan or First Nation.
Hope this helps.
I just tried to post something I wrote on my FB page showing how eugenics is connected to Deaf people (past and present), but it was rejected by the software for being too long (and in HTML).
Guess you'll just have to come to the understanding yourselves, if you take the time to explore the issues.
If you (Mike) have any suggestions for how I can upload my whole posting, I'll do it.
The idea of ASL colonizing Deaf Native sign language awakened me from my intellectual slumber on several levels. As a member of the Bad River Band of Lake Superior Ojibwe I found myself recalling what I had been taught many years ago about the purpose of Ojibwe sign language. As a Deaf person I found myself wishing I had learned Ojibwe sign language. As a social scientist who specializes in race and ethnicity I found myself asking if the colonial interpretation was accurate. The purpose of Ojibwe sign was that of a diplomatic language used in international relations with other tribes. It was somewhat an elitist language reserved for the smarter folks in the tribe. What nation would send a person lacking in wisdom to negotiate with other nations? This is not the purpose of sign languages for all tribes. What does appear to be universal is that the use of Native sign languages was not limited to those Deaf natives.
Cultural leveling and cultural diffusion are more complex than space permits me to elaborate on here. However, a fundamental question is whether a person using a Native sign language could communicate with someone using a Deaf sign language? The historical data does indicate a resounding YES. Tribal delegations coming to DC came into contact with Deaf at Gallaudet college. Could they communicate with each other? YES! See First Annual Report of the Bureau of American Ethnology 1880. Was ASL the culprit in the decline of Native sign languages? IF at all, the influence was minor. As a diplomatic language, the functions of Native sign languages diminished once spoken English was imposed on Natives. The common language that facilitated inter-tribal relations became English. It was spoken English, not ASL that was the problem.
What is true is the methods of suppressing tribal languages were first practiced on Deaf. The early curriculum at Gallaudet was published in Keep’s Manual. Keep or I should say, Reverend Keep devised an oppressive manual for educating Deaf. It didn’t work and was exported to Carlisle Indian School. So there is a connection I guess, but it doesn’t quite fit the mold you were trying to sell.
Your argument that ASL somehow colonized Natives has some other problems. Implicit within your argument is that ASL will inhibit a child’s acquisition of English. Where is the evidence? Indeed, failure to teach a Deaf child ASL is likely to inhibit their comprehension of English.
I urge you to do your research before taking your assumptions to the public as if they are fact. If you wish to state your opinions – fine, but also state the limitations of those opinions. You are guessing.
Dr. Richard Clark Eckert, your contribution was most interesting and rings strongly of truth. I'd like to hear more from your personal and professional studies.
@Rob--
Creative of you to lose the upper case i in favor of the lower case, but it wouldn't be grammatically correct in the English language. Most "Indians" prefer to have their heritage recognized with the use of their orignal tribal names and don't wish to be lumped with every other tribe. To be absolutely PC you call them "Wendat" or "Chippewa" My great-grandmother was proud to 'pass' as white.
@Holism-- A few years back the Makah tribe of Washington state won the right to hunt whale, which had originally been written into their peace treaty of the 1800s, and revoked later when whales began to decline in population. The Makah argued that whale hunting was a strong part of the their culture and the whale hunt was necessary to keep the culture thriving. So they won, and a day was scheduled for them to kill a whale. Because it had been a big story it was filmed by newscrews and animal rights activists, so most of us got a chance to watch it on TV.
It was quite a spectical watching these Makah in Helly Hansen rain gear and life jackets jet out in speed boats equlipped with cell phones and state-of-the art equipmen of every kind that modern fishermen use today.
Then they killed the whale. The world watched as they brought it up onto the beach-- tribal elders cut off pieces of blubber--passed it out to tribal members-- many of whom claimed they hated it because most of them today eat hamburgers and pizza like the rest of us.
In the past every part of the whale was used to make spears, clothing, and the rib cages were used for shelter. Well of course the Makah of today prefer wearing Levis instead of breach clothes and they live in houses with electricity so no need to make a home out of whale bones. In the end, the carcass rotted on the beach. So much for culture.
You can't go back in time.
@Rob--
Creative of you to lose the upper case i in favor of the lower case, but it wouldn't be grammatically correct in the English language. Most "Indians" prefer to have their heritage recognized with the use of their orignal tribal names and don't wish to be lumped with every other tribe. To be absolutely PC you call them "Wendat" or "Chippewa" My great-grandmother was proud to 'pass' as white.
@Holism-- A few years back the Makah tribe of Washington state won the right to hunt whale, which had originally been written into their peace treaty of the 1800s, and revoked later when whales began to decline in population. The Makah argued that whale hunting was a strong part of the their culture and the whale hunt was necessary to keep the culture thriving. So they won, and a day was scheduled for them to kill a whale. Because it had been a big story it was filmed by newscrews and animal rights activists, so most of us got a chance to watch it on TV.
It was quite a spectical watching these Makah in Helly Hansen rain gear and life jackets jet out in speed boats equlipped with cell phones and state-of-the art equipmen of every kind that modern fishermen use today.
Then they killed the whale. The world watched as they brought it up onto the beach-- tribal elders cut off pieces of blubber--passed it out to tribal members-- many of whom claimed they hated it because most of them today eat hamburgers and pizza like the rest of us.
In the past every part of the whale was used to make spears, clothing, and the rib cages were used for shelter. Well of course the Makah of today prefer wearing Levis instead of breach clothes and they live in houses with electricity so no need to make a home out of whale bones. In the end, the carcass rotted on the beach. So much for culture.
You can't go back in time.
Seems like you open the Pandora's box, didn't you, Kokonut? :)
However, I must say I thoroughly enjoy the learning experience, especially thorough the eyes of Dr. Richard Clark Eckert (if its truly him and authenticated).
The interesting thing is from my experience with hanging out with the apaches down south in southern New Mexico. A friend would actually tell me "A god damn drunk injun!" as we passed a drunk apache wavering around on the highway. I'm pretty sure he was showing off his sense of humor in terms of how the white people would say as they drive on the highway. However, I haven't really got into political issues on how they wanted to be called, because he and I were friends foremost. I need to go down and visit him sometimes soon as well as meet up with his mother and ask her questions on how they prefer to be called. The impression I'm getting from them is they prefer to be a "tribal member" of that particular tribe or an apache would suffice for them. Apparently they're accustomed to the "indian, natives, native americans, etc." That's for the common people of that tribe. I cannot say if its the same for the political members of the said tribe. It'd be interesting had I met one of 'em and find out. This is the end of the political issues on what they're to be called on this post.
Now, onwards to ASL and ISL -- uh... ASL taking over where ISL dies out... I would wager my right nut it's mostly English taking precedence over ASL and ISL.
To Kim, you keep saying that we cannot go back in time, back then white men were very insensitive to many minority groups. It is unfortunate that history happened like this but now we have the opportunity to make sure that everyone has a culture/language that they appreciate and use. We know from history that minority people have suffered greatly when their culture/language is completely wiped out, alocholism is prevelant in Native American culture, many Indians have drinking problems, they are usually in poverty level and are stuck in reservations. Yet they try to keep their culture/language intact. I wish that the government was sensitive to their needs and to listen and involve them in politics. Yet they didn't and they made all laws for Indians. Just like what AB 2072 did, they did not involve us until someone heard about it and then we jumped in. So far, we only have very few Indian politicans in Washington DC, no deaf politicans which we need to work on pushing for some of them to get into politics and all that. Mike, your article was unfairly written and blaming all of it to ASL which is completely untrue. I don't understand the fact that you graduated from Gallaudet and yet the information was not drilled into your head about deaf culture/history and all that??? Makes me wonder.. Sigh... A man like you would have been a great advocate and teamplayer for all of us in the deaf community and yet you go against us in everything which is a tragedy.
Kim,
I had not heard or read of that story about the Makahs' whale hunt. Thanks for making me laugh!
I realize the irony, the Makahs' wish to maintain their culture clashing with their(and our)materialism of today's world.
Sad that the whale went to waste though.
That story illustrates that every culture evolves over time, whether we like it or not.
Ann_C
@ Anonymous, This is such complex issue. It seems to me that the 'Indians' who have fared the worse have been the ones who refused to embrace English and 'white' culture.
Many, many opportunities exist for young "Indians" to get ahead today. There are hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal monies and scholarship funds designated specifically for Native American students who want to get an education. The vast majority of "Indians" who learn English and get a marketable skill leave the reservation.
I argue that it is the very act of hanging onto one's obsolete culture that causes self destruction, not the other way around.
With due respect, Mike and Barry, your blog posting is a moot on the extinction of ISL.
That was before the cultural sensitivity and awareness about the plights of Native Americans back to the early 1970s like the classic "Support Environment" campaign with the Native American guy had tears from his eye seeing all trash in the wildlife and rivers, ""Solider Blue" film about the brutality of dominant society back to the 1800s and Marlo Brando's stunt publicity at the Oscar film cermeony by sending the female squaw (offensive term anyway) to refuse his acceptance of the Oscar award for the Best Actor.
The conservative ideals were the conquests of Native Americans and responsible for their demise and extinction thru cultural imposition, etc.
Deaf ASL users back in the 1970s and the pre-1970s were much part of the mentality of dominant society anyway.
Deaf people just want to see more deaf Native Americans to get good education. They ought to encourage more deaf Native Americans being the teacher to the deaf Native American kids.
Why can't the deaf Native Indian children being trilingual with their own ISL, ASL and written English to succeed in life beyond their reservation.
RLM
Ann C-- Yeah--after the gov't approved the hunt, the Japanese argued that whale hunting used to be part of their cultural past too, and therefore they should also be allowed to hunt whale. They have a point.
Folks, I see it as a culture thing, a clash of cultures where the ASL using Deaf culture of the white world won out. You see, in the end many Deaf indians choose the ASL using Deaf culture when it came to down to choosing. Like the study said on what was taught and when the time came they had to decide:
"At the school, there was usually no formal instruction of American Indian or American Indian culture and signs; only Deaf culture and ASL were taught, leading many American Indian students to join the “Deaf World.” After graduation, the students had to make difficult decisions about where and how to establish themselves: on the pueblos with hearing families and friends, in urban areas with other Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing people, or in border towns with limited access to both groups."
The irony is this. Their first "natural language," as many of have described, is ISL, not ASL. Yet, they were forced to use ASL and crowded out ISL in favor it. Doesn't matter about the "system." The fact is that they were forced to use a different sign language not of their own. Assimilate into a mostly white Deaf culture and at the same time ignore Native Indian's own sign language tradition and such. And as a result it has impacted their own heritage and natural sign language they grew up with.
Mr. Eckert,
What you said,
"Implicit within your argument is that ASL will inhibit a child’s acquisition of English. Where is the evidence? Indeed, failure to teach a Deaf child ASL is likely to inhibit their comprehension of English."
I made no such argument. I support a parents' informed decision if they choose ASL. Children using ASL is fine by me. What you said is moot. And guessing on your part.
Secondly, you asked a question:
"Was ASL the culprit in the decline of Native sign languages?"
Again, not about ASL as being the culprit of Native sign languages but about Deaf Native Indians using ASL in place of their own "natural language" they were brought up with through generations. It's the whole (mostly) white Deaf culture thing that brings up this recurring question of how they preferred it over their own natural heritage.
To anonymous about Mike and Gally comment:
What I've written was done fairly. Just as fair, in your mind probably, of Mr. Black using eugenics of Deaf culture and ASL. I've discussed the method used in practicing "eugenics" and that was by incorporating Deaf Native Indians into a (mostly) white Deaf culture that uses ASL, and a culture already familiar with English. A Deaf culture with ASL that was viewed as a superior language than ISL. The differences of cultures where an Americanized, mostly white Deaf culture won out. That pretty much sums it up.
Who'd ever thought that ASL/Deaf culture would impact some Deaf Native Indian's own heritage enough to practically cause it's own sign language go extinct? The KPISL is a pretty darn good example of that.
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