Monday, March 21, 2011

What Dr. Paddy Ladd said versus Dr. Gallaudet on 1880 Milan Congress

With thanks to Candy who provided some crucial quotes of Dr. Paddy Ladd in the first chapter of his book.

Paddy Ladd:
What could a Deaf person, a Deaf community become?
What could we have been had not sign language and Deaf teachers been removed from Deaf education after the Milan ‘Congress’ of 1880?
What could we have been had we not been forced to endure more than a century of English illiteracy, self-shame and stigma?
Who and what were we in the centuries before such prohibitions descended, when Deaf Professionals and Deaf pride was reputedly much stronger?
And, what can we bring forward from those times which might inform the fledging steps we must take in this 21st century?
Dr. Paddy Ladd is a British bloke who wrote a thesis from the point of view as a British person relevant to his experience in his country versus an American person in his/her own country. But let's look at what Dr. EM Gallaudet said in 1886 to Lord Egerton during a question and answer session with Dr. Gallaudet.

The most damning quote by Dr. Gallaudet to Lord Egerton in 1886? (6 years later after the Milan Convention of 1880)

"I am not aware that the opinion or the practice of any teacher in America, or of any school in America, has been changed by this action of the Milan Convention."

That is in direct opposition to claims today that deaf people (i.e. signers) were harmed by the Milan Convention decision in the United States.  Gallaudet and many others at the time rejected such a recommendation by the Milan Convention on oral method only route.

But here's an interesting twist, Dr. Gallaudet advocated for the use of the oral method in America as well. It was to be included with all other teaching and communication methods at the time.


32 Abingdon Street, Westminster.
Wednesday, 10th November, 1886.
Present: The Eight Hon. The LORD EGERTON OF TATTON In The Chair.


Source.

You have Lord Egerton asking questions to Dr. EM Gallaudet in 1886. This was done 6 years after the Milan Convention of 1880.  Note the bold sections. The red color ones are the more interesting quotes.
13.306. Lord Egerton: I see that a number of resolutions were arrived at by that Congress, and I think the Commission would be very glad to know if you could give us some idea of the opinion of those in America best calculated to express an opinion upon the results arrived at at that Congress?
Gallaudet: The feeling in America was that the resolutions adopted by that Convention, giving a formal approval to the pure oral method, were not entitled to very great weight. The Convention was far from being a representative body. I mean to say that there was no basis of representation, so that a particular institution or a particular country should be considered as being represented by a certain number of delegates. My own opinion at the time was, and nothing has since occurred to change it, that the decision of the Convention at Milan as regards the pure oral system, as expressed in these resolutions, was not to be taken as of very great weight in determining questions of method, and that opinion was entertained by a very large majority of the teachers of the deaf in America, including many who taught then and teach now on the oral method. In justice to the few who hold to a different opinion I should say there were some teachers in America who accepted the decision of the Milan Convention as expressing their views. I am not aware that the opinion or the practice of any teacher in America, or of any school in America, has been changed by this action of the Milan Convention.
13.307. Lord Egerton: May I take it that from your own experience the combined system, with as much vocalization as can be added, is the method that you would recommend !
Dr. Gallaudet: I should say oral teaching should be included.
13.308. Lord Egerton: Is that the method which is recommended in America today?
Dr. Gallaudet: That is the method which is recommended by the resolutions which I had the honor to read to the Commission yesterday, as coming from the largest Convention that has ever been held in America, and at which all methods were represented. My views are in accordance with the recommendations in those- resolutions, and I have held those views during now a period of 19 years. I may say frankly, that my experience prior to that time was such as to lead me to depreciate and undervalue the oral teaching of the deaf, and I wrote and spoke and worked as a manual teacher purely up to 1867 ; but when I then visited Europe and examined the oral schools, especially in Germany, I became satisfied that I had failed to grasp the situation theretofore, and I accepted at once the addition of the oral method as a necessity in any system that aimed to reach the highest good of the deaf.

So, the acceptance of the oral method today shouldn't be a problem. but the today's approach, understanding, and advance in technology are light years away from that of in 1886. Yet the signing is still recommended to be included. No harm in that but I must re-iterate that an informed decision is still up to the parents. Parents still hold the trump cards. All we can hope is at parents are adequately informed to make an important but informed decision.

Using the Milan Convention of 1880 as a scape-goat in order to blame the so called harm to the signing community does not hold that much weight. Competiting ideas on educational and communication approaches were a continual and dynamic process over the last 130 years since the Milan Convention of 1880. In each respective ideological practices it has become more refined along with increased knowledge and confidence in their area of expertise on AVT, SEE, ASL, MANUAL, CUED SPEECH, AUDITORY or ORAL approaches today combined with the use of hearing aids or cochlear implants that helps improve the acquisition of the spoken and auditory language.  What we now know today along with the advances in hearing technology cannot be compared to the thinking of the 1880s and rudimentary approaches with limited knowledge on educational practices and approaches. There is simply no comparison to be made in terms of equivalency here between two very different eras.

None.

The old adage that's true today is that there is no one shoe size that fits all for people with hearing loss from mild to profound hearing loss.  That philosophical approach is adequate today but not in 1886. Yet sign language is still a very important communication approach (even language) for people with hearing loss and those who don't have hearing loss.

The problem today is that some Deaf people are simply addicted with this whole scapegoating efforts doing the constant blame game in the name of Deaf politics rather than simply focus on positive examples and let that shine through. Which is why today I continue to say, "Deafhood? No thanks." You need to understand from my point of view as to why I say that. It's simple. It's these stupid Deaf politics that get in the way of. Sort of like refusing to agree to disagree but instead prefer to throw a temper tantrum on the floor for the world to see.

I don't judge people on their preference to use or not use their voice. Same goes for signing preferences. And the use of their hearing aids or cochlear implants. Nor do I go behind closed doors and do all these Salem witch trials to determine (i.e. the extreme audacity) whether if this or that person is "Deaf-centric" enough in the name of "deafhood." When that happens you KNOW those people are brainwashed and fervently ideological who do not realize the consequences of making those kinds of inquiries can have. That's one of the reason why segregation and discrimination are happening behind closed doors.  And that "deafhood" has become about politics and ideology and nothing about acceptance for what they are instead focus on "who" they are. This is true for CAD (California Association of the Deaf) when they proposed to use the "deafhood" requirement in order to be a member (see video below).

Can we say "segregation" now? Can we say "discrimination" now? Can we say that those people simply do not accept people with hearing loss by focusing on what they are?

This "deafhood" ideology is now becoming the new "McArthyism." It's no longer a philosophical concept but it has now become a required practice.




Basic summary of that video.

*CAD requires members to be a part of "deafhood."

*Must take workshops in order to qualify as officers of CAD.

*Says it is discrimination if one says "no thanks to deafhood" and cannot run for officer of CAD.

*Medical view of "deafhood" - everything is always about improving our lives, who are they to tell us what shouldn't be or should be.


I'll include more summary briefs for those who don't know sign language later on.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

They deliberately scammed with a false sense of information about history and consequently taking the blame to AG Bell, Cochlear Implant Companies, Oral Program, etc. Deafhood Foundation have profited themselves through constant workshops plus Deafhood consulting services to open college classrooms like Olone College in Fremont, CA.

Now, their attitudes have appeared colorful showing discrimination, segregation, etc. which against our human conscience. The question is why are they doing this?

They are reacting from a successful Cochlear Implant on kids and Digital Hearing aids on hard of hearing kids. Plus, AVT programs like Clarke Institute grew to 7 schools in the US and AG Bell has over 30 private schools and Auditory Tech schools grew over 40 within 10 years. Kids has turned out to be successful academically and socially with hearing peers. Deafhood Leaders did want to show and tell about this because they will not make money.

More and more deaf school teachers, etc. have been brainwashed with Deafhood philosophy. Their attitudes have changed noticeability by showing discrimination, segregation and lack of conscience. They use vocabulary as "Deaf Souls" "Neo-Eugenics" "AG BAD" "Hearing" and the list goes on and on. They use so called "Deaf Center" to segregate themselves. They rant like rooming with a meth addict. They are completely illusional because that's all they do is talking to each other by exchanging ideas without concrete evidence. A classic example - "Many Cochlear Implant babies have died" "Facial paralysis after the implant" "Cochlear Implant does not work" "Impossible to equal as hearing" etc. Indeed, they did influence the hearing parents to enroll at their campus. One parent wrote a blog saying "FUCK YOU To the Deaf Community" because he got fooled by deaf schools with a false information.

Now, more and more parents have become educated and they are staying away from deaf community. One parent said, WTF is this person thinking when I have an option to give a tool to hear, they said I will rob my child's Deaf Soul. He immediately pulled his child out of the deaf school and enrolled elsewhere. Parents are communicating each other as references including interpreters. Most interpreters are against the idea of Deafhood philosophy. We don't see INTERPRETERS propagandize deafhood in the blog/vlog world. It's obvious.

Back in the day in the 70's 80's and 90's...it wasn't an issue. Now, what's left for the deaf community to offer? Gallaudet is changing its course to a Cochlear Implant University. Interpreters are running wild to get AVT certification and other careers. Parents are smarter and making right choices. More deaf schools are shutting down.

Deafhood is rooming with a meth addict. They continue to propagandize to uneducated deaf communities out of fear with a false sense of information. Consequently, deaf have managed to mimic deafhood's language and attitudes toward to their friends and peers. They rant senselessly. They judge unreasonably. They protested with unreasonable doubt. Information that they shared in public sounded like someone who is wearing a straight jacket. They sneak and revenge to silence someone. They bullied to innocent deaf people. They have used racist language and degrade others. It smells like a poison.

Candy said...

Mike..

I remember the Q & A between Egerton and Gallaudet, I believe you had posted part of that elsewhere in your previous post and I totally forgot all about it. They are facts cemented in truths. The information you shared is PRICELESS.

People should go to the source, review Paddy's book and compare with it the true history of deaf in America.

The 'dh discourses' on dh's website holds discussions for each subshapter in the book and when I checked their first subchapter of chapter 1, page 3 already revealed false information on the history in America. I believe England didn't vote on the resolution in Milan, I have no clue how England fared. But, none of that had any effect on America. DH in America are putting these ideas in deaf American's minds and creating chaos. It's a shame.

Great post.

Anonymous said...

That's the authentic evidence where the dark orange bold, "source" is at. Wondering if Gallaudet University has the authentic "carbon copy" and restored in the Library?

Apparently, Dr.Gallaudet and Alexander G. Bell already met and presented the paper for England. I believe the original paper must be at the Volta Bureau in Washington D.C.

Why did the stamp state that the paper is in the University of Michigan Library? It was on the page 2.

White Ghost

Anonymous said...

... Wait a minute. Are you saying sign languages didn't illegal in most states after Milan 1880?

- KarissaMann05

Anonymous said...

Karissa,

That's right and deaf schools with sign language have expanded in many states from the late 1800's to 1900's.

So how did you feel when they lied about this?

Mike said...

Karissa,

It was never illegal in the first place. It was voted as a recommendation and not about making it as a law. The Milan decision in 1880 affected mostly of those in Europe and not the United States. Dr. Gallaudet in 1886 said that "I am not aware that the opinion or the practice of any teacher in America, or of any school in America, has been changed by this action of the Milan Convention." Meaning the Milan result did not affect the educational practices for deaf and hh children in deaf schools. Dr. Gallaudet also acknowledged and accepted the recommendation based on his own observations that "oral teaching should be included" and that it be "a necessity in any system that aimed to reach the highest good of the deaf."

It was simply that there were competing educational philosophies between oral and signing that persisted after 1880 which was the reason why the Milan Conference was set up to discuss those competing ideas.

Read the history of American School for the Deaf.
http://www.asd-1817.org/page.cfm?p=430

Schools were still being built after 1880 in the U.S.

You can read one school history, Oregon school for the Deaf, here - http://www.salemhistory.net/education/oregon_school_deaf.htm

People need to understand that at the time of 1880 and into the 1900s there were naturally competing ideas between oral and signing. This was expected and a natural course of evolution when it comes to teaching methods for deaf and hard of hearing students.

Each school was different. Some supported oral method, some with signing, and some advocated the combined use of both.

Anonymous said...

Second link you provided is not work. Are you sure it is correct?

http://www.salemhistory.net/education/oregon_school_

It's interesting... Hmmm..... Okay, so if it is not illegal, then why weren't ASL and other sign languages recognized to anybody until 1970's? (That was when William Stokoe showed how sign languages could be useful.) If it was not illegal *and* ASL or any sign language is still not recognized, then I guess two of my family members would be different by now...

- KarissaMann05

Candy said...

Illegal and recognize are two different things.

Illegal means banned, not allowed.

Recognize means to accept as true or acknowledge.

Recognize does not mean allowed.

Let's not confuse banned sign language with recognizing sign language.

Milan 1880 did not cause America to stop using sign language. Gallaudet and many schools for deaf still used it.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 6:20AM --

Oh, I don't realize your comment is right before Kokonut's comment. Sorry if I missed you.

Hmm... It's hard to say...

Well, when I was a HS student and I went to one of dorms for Deaf History in Oregon. For second time, I think? But I well remember one of stories is about one student tried of spend on lipreading and listening. When a teacher left the classroom, the student went to turn off a radio thing or something that I don't remember what it is.

Another stories were somewhat similar; if I recall correctly, students struggled with speech and listen skills. I do remember only few kids were successful ones were mentioned. I did see old photos, radio things, old stuff, and etc in the dorm. They're from 1880's to 1960's... so I don't recall any story mentioned they were allowed to sign before 1970's.

But if you said it is just myth and all lie, then I guess that all of those stuff must be fake and those stories must be a lie, too... I don't know... it is hard to say.

But, let me ask something. Before 1970, how come that was only few states recognized sign languages, yet most states only chose oralism and/or similar paths? I'll ask again -- why weren't ASL and other sign languages recognized to anybody until the awareness of sign languages was rise in 1970's?

Is it because sign languages are not a spoken language so that must be not valid enough to be part of languages? I don't mean to spark a debate... I just think it seems not any make sense to me...

- KarissaMann05

Anonymous said...

And I forget one thing... Since I can't open the second link that Kokonut provided, I don't know if the history website is actually different than what I saw in the place...

- KarissaMann05

Anonymous said...

KarissaMann05.....

"Before 1970, how come that was only few states recognized sign languages, yet most states only chose oralism and/or similar paths? I'll ask again -- why weren't ASL and other sign languages recognized to anybody until the awareness of sign languages was rise in 1970's?"

two reasons: (1) Deaf extremists in the 1970's were so jealous and paranoid they they tried to control most aspects of ASL and deaf education which caused; (2) a reduction of opportunities for ASL and deaf education to expand, which continues today.

Anonymous said...

Karissa,

Sign language was huge back then until Parents reacted in the 70's for a change. SEE, Cued, Total Communication, etc. was invented during 60's and 70's. Parents like my mother wanted something innovative because she didn't like how it happened to my older sibling from the school for the deaf. Parents wanted something better than what it has been offered. That's when the change happened and the result of this caused deafhood to react negatively.
If deaf schools performed above the state academic level, then it's a different story. IEP was invented in the 70's and it changes everything in the deaf education on it's own. Today, technology and accessibility is 1000 times better than what it was in the 70's and 80's.

Anonymous said...

Candy --
Hey, I know what "recognize " is and what "illegal" is. =) But that is not what I said. Please can you re-read what I said?

Anonymous --
No, that's not an answer. My questions are focus on 1960's and older... I questioned because there was a lack of knowledge of sign languages in the past.

- KarissaMann05

Candy said...

Karrisamann05..

My mom became deaf at six months old and umm she originally was sent to an oral school that was established by her dad who happened to be the superintendent of schools in her small town. Her dad and her mom fought a lot over whether to have her enrolled in an oral school or deaf school. When my mom was 12, she enrolled in Illinois School for the Deaf and graduated sometimes in the late 1940's. She was fluent in sign language (ASL), her signs was not PSE, it was more ASL. At that time in ISD as well as many schools, I'm sure - they had both oral and manual classes. Oral are for kids who are hard of hearing or have speech skills, and manual is strictly sign language. Many of kids who were in oral and manual classes tend to interact and socialize after school, thus many were more users of sign language than pure oralists. This is what I know about the history of ISD. I'm sure many other states are the same. Oralism was around for many years prior to 1880 and sign language was still alive and well even in 1940 and 1950, since I do know many deaf folks from these era via my parents. Another interesting thing I have noticed was that when my mom passed, I went through many of her mails she kept over the years from her friends who also attended ISD, I was astounded to see excellent English usage by her classmates. By the way, my mom had no grudges about being in an oral school when she was younger. It was just a fact of life and she understood both her parents loved her and only wanted the best.

Candy said...

BTW Karrisamann05..

you said "Okay, so if it is not illegal, then why weren't ASL and other sign languages recognized to anybody until 1970's?"

I took that to mean you saw that if it was recognized then it must have been illegal prior to 1970's. But, thanks for clarifying what you meant.