The title "sign write" is as best as I can describe a situation and it has to do with an observation I noticed in a discussion forum on a deaf-related topic. There was a hearing parent (of a deaf child) who actually wrote somewhat haltingly in English as if it was done in a signing format. This hearing parent was a new member with English as the native language. So, it's not like it was a 2nd language or anything like that. I thought about using "deaf talk" but that's not right and does it reflect appropriately what I'm trying to get at here. And so, "sign write" is as close as I can describe correctly this situation about a hearing parent.
In later threads that parent wrote in a fashion that was grammatically smoother and stayed like that ever since. And so I have this question and I'm wondering about this. Has anyone ever witnessed anything like that before? A new hearing parent in a forum attended by mostly deaf and hard of hearing members to write English in an almost a haltingly manner like "sign write"?
I'm thinking that this parent had this misconception about the forum members' English fluency and thought it was necessary to write in such a way. Your thoughts?
Saturday, November 26, 2011
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17 comments:
Sounds like she was attempting to write in the manner of how a poor deaf person writes. That can be translated into "ASL Write". Deaf Talk is another one that can be described well too. But, it would all depend on how this parent uses sign language with his/her child. Did he/she use ASL? PSE? SEE?
I used ASL write because if one were to use sign language in English order, the writing would not be more English, and I can be wrong too since I don't know exactly how it was written.
Is there a way you can post examples of that here?
Are you talking about sign write like I saw at www.signwriting.org/?
I don't recommend this for deaf children even adults who still struggle to learn English. I am not ashamed myself that I am not perfect English grammar writing but I do best as I can and still work on it.
I think sign write is good for entertainment purpose not educational lesson.
Lavender16,
No. Not that. My blog has nothing to do with signwriting. I'm saying that a hearing parent write in English in a more "simple" way but later on writes normally. And I'm asking on what you think why this parent would write in that manner on a forum that is mostly attended by deaf and hh of hearing members.
Candy,
I have no idea other than the claim of signing in ASL. Probably more like PSE that true ASL signing. Can't really say which.
"ASL write" is a good description.
As for "deaf talk," some may see it as an insult phrase even if you try and explain it as the equivalency of "ASL write" or "sign write." The problem is that people have a bad habit of jumping to conclusion if you say such a phrase as if it was an attempt to insult their English. Even if you make it clear that wasn't the intention.
Here's an example as best I remember it.
"When my daughter small, take her to deaf club so she can learn sign. Beautiful language, but can't learn all from book or hearing instructor. Will learn skill in ASL with deaf."
That an example of a kind of halting English I'm talking about. And then later proceeded to write in grammatically correct fashion like everybody else. That made me wonder, why did that parent write like that in the very beginning? I believe it had to do with misconception on the need to write like that when it was never necessary to do so in the first place.
She was writing like how a poor deaf person writes in the manner of how a deaf person's English would be written based on how they signed.
I can only presume that she was trying to fit in with other deaf people and probably was surprised that not all deaf people write like how a poor deaf person writes and thus reverted to writing normal.
I think your assessment is correct, about her.
She assumed she had to write like that.
I think she pretty much stereotyped deaf people. Not every deaf persons write like how a poor deaf person writes.
I don't know how I would call it since it's not really in ASL order.
"deaf talk" maybe, but not all deaf people sign like that.
"Sign write" probably fits the bill.
;)
I'll be honest, if a person knew I was deaf and met me for the first time, and attempted to write to me for the first time and wrote like that, I would be offended. It's stereotyping. It's not much different from how a person would enunciate exaggeratedly which said person would not do if he/she knew I wasn't deaf. Most likely I would not do anything about it but ignore the person. I had a similar situation happening to me once where a co-worker confronted another co-worker for enunciating exaggeratedly at me. It was funny seeing the look on her face, she couldn't give an answer as to why she did that. But, we knew why she did that, it was because I'm hard of hearing and she assumed all hard of hearing persons read lips and she had to enunciate exaggeratedly.
Candy,
I think so, too. The hearing parent was trying to fit in at first thinking the need to, for a lack of a better word, dumb down the writing some.
When I first saw that, it looked kind of bad for that hearing parent to write like that. Sounded like this hearing parent must've had some preconceived stereotype about deaf/hh people in a discussion forum even though the parent has a deaf daughter. Rather revelatory to see a hearing parent write like that.
WOW! What a revelation! Growing up, I often wondered why it was so difficult to lipread. Like: "Where's Lois?". I would write: "Where Lois?" See what I mean?
So...
Sign write for the mother...
Lipread write for me???
I just love you guys, Mike & Candy!
0Lois
I can neither speak nor write in Spanish. Too hard. What about an Arabic language in writing and speaking? I can't do in one other way! I cannot afford to portray and copy other person's language. Can you?
So, what's the point? What's the difference?
Life is....duh.
When I read that blog, I laughed.
White Ghost
Thank you, o'Lois. Speaking of revelation, now that you mentioned it, I wondered if that hearing parent wrote it in that manner? The parent's deaf child while growing up? If not, then why in the heck write in a halting-like English in the very beginning in a discussion forum attended mostly by deaf and hard of hearing members? Food for thought, I'd say.
Hi Mike! Look, she has a deaf daughter so this was what she saw to write something like that. Take me for example, I couldn't tell the difference between 15 and 50 on the lips. Before writing it down, I had to ask: one five or five zero? Deafened at the age of 3 and I lipread my way through public school until I was 13 years old knowing no sign language. It was a light bulb moment for me to understand why she did it.
0Lois
Maybe they were trying to learn how to be deaf. Did you ask them why they wrote that way?
Polatie,
No, I didn't ask. It was appeared that this hearing parent had some preconceived notion thinking one had to write that way fearing a mostly deaf/hh audience might "misunderstand." At least that is what it looks like. It was just odd the way the parent responded and later wrote in a normal, grammatically correct fashion.
oLois, you might have something there. Born out of habit and automatically reverted to behaving like that in the very beginning in a forum.
Polatie,
Mike is correct. He does not need to ask this hearing parent some questions.
The blogger, who caught this hearing parent's writing skills that could tell if it's different kind of a writing style, isn't dumb. Once you enter and read the thread in the forum by the same person for long time, she can tell the difference.
Nice try, though, this hearing parent. The blogger caught you (this hearing parent) in a big time.
White Ghost
It's an assumption that many hearing ppl make, believing all deaf and hoh ppl think/write like they sign. What they don't realize is that a number of deaf and hoh ppl are quite literate and have good reading skills, even though some struggle to write well. There's a difference between perception and actual expression of language.
For some deaf and hoh ppl, they may not have the fluency of expression in written English, but their perception (reading) of English is way better.
Ppl often assume things when it's really not what they imagine.
Ann_C
Those of you who would like to read what the blogger wrote a funny story....
Here it is....
dawnschriver.blogspot.com/2011/11/this-is-what-bullsht-smells-like.html
Saturday Night Live could use that skit.
Candy --
That! It's called reverse oppression or vice versa.
White Ghost
Reverse oppression? How so?
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