Disingenuousness comes in many forms and this is
one of them.
Now, if doing the Nazi-style salute is not an issue at all then I dare the Kappa Gamma of today to do another group photo doing the exact same salute as the Kappa Gamma brothers did back in the 1989. Go ahead and prove me and to the rest of the people out there wrong.
Here's a close up zoom of a
Kappa Gamma group doing the Nazi-style salute seen below . Note the deliberate outstretched arm, palm flat facing toward the front that
reminiscences Nazi Germany's own Nazi salute ? They are certainly not waving, Carl.
In Carl's futile effort to rebut my argument on the fraternity Nazi-style salute he had the audacity to use a picture of MLK waving to the crowd (
more pictures here) as being the equivalent of a Nazi salute. Completely laughable. Yet note the palm of MLK's right hand is outstretched while his right arm is bent in a relaxed form but not in an attentive form. Sorry, Carl, it is not the same thing. MLK wouldn't do such a dumb thing as to mimic a Nazi-style salute knowing full well, with him being a highly educated and wise man, knowing the history behind Nazi Germany. The kind of salute that is a reminder of the Holocaust that Nazi Germany atrociously committed during WWII.
Ok. What about the Pope's own salute? A Nazi style salute?
Nope. Not even close. Note the relaxed arm. The spread the of his fingers or outstretched palm. Nothing is indicative of having an attentive form but a person who is obviously waving at people, humbled by their presence.
Ok. What about Obama?
Nope. Again, just like the Pope. He is in a relaxed pose, outstretched arm with outstretched palm where he is obviously waving to his adoring fans before entering on his Air Force 1 jet like he has done many times.
Hmm. What about a cartoon drawing depicting a Nazi-style salute?
Seriously?
Based on a Roman character during Roman times doing their own kind of salute specific to their own time period that *
PRE-DATES* Nazi Germany and WWII? Oh, c'mon! Why so desperate, Carl?
This next drawing suggested by Carl seen below certainly cannot be compared to the Kappa Gamma's 20th century Nazi-style salutes because that salute in the picture scene depicts an era that, again, pre-dates Nazi Germany and WWII by a few thousand years.
The point of this has to do with after the fact when it was Germany who made their Nazi salutes recognizable around the world and is correlated strongly with the history of their atrocious mass killings of several million Jewish people in Europe. Anybody who attempt to use salute examples that predates Nazi Germany in an effort to rebut an argument about KG's own Nazi-style salute as being warranted and justified is simply missing the point in a totally disingenuous and dishonest way.
But, you know what's funny, Carl? When you produced a picture seen below in the effort to rebut my argument it has backfired on you. Why? Simply because the young man with the tattoos doing the salute was a 20 year old professional soccer player who did the Nazi salute at a
soccer game that got him booted for life.
The Hellenic Football Federation met Sunday in response to the
incident and decided to ban the player, who has previously captained the
national team in youth competitions. “The player’s action to salute to
spectators in a Nazi manner is a severe provocation, insults all the
victims of Nazi barbarity and injures the deeply pacifist and human
character of the game,” the federation said as Greece marked the 70th anniversary of the deportation of thousands of Greek Jews to Nazi death camps.
Katidis, who initially claimed that he was not saluting but pointing
at a friend in the stands, said later that he had no idea what the
gesture meant. In an apology
issued after the ban, he called his salute “totally unacceptable,”
adding, “I feel terrible for those I upset with the stupidity of my
act.”
Video and photographs of the incident showed
that while several members of the club’s support staff celebrated with
the player, others looked disturbed by the gesture, and at least one
older man tried to pull his arm down.
Bold emphasis is mine.
The big difference with the 20 year old professional soccer player who did the salute is that he
profusely apologized to the public for something that he was not aware of that it was in bad form and an insult to do such a salute. He acknowledged the stupidity of doing that salute. Did the Gamma do that? Nah. Never apologized to the public. Not once. In fact, we got people like Carl to help sweep it under the rug, because, you know, doing Nazi-style salute isn't hurting anyone. Right?
Here's another incident of two girls from a girls basketball team doing the Nazi salute that got them in
hot water this year.
Remember, what we have is a *GROUP* photo of KG brothers doing exactly the same Nazi-style salute that took place in 1989, well before the era of the internet. It was a salute that looks exactly like this:
But knowing the history behind the people who did the saluting were the ones who supported and obeyed Hitler and his regime would understand that a Nazi style salute reminds people of this:
And, Carl, since you
emigrated from Netherlands to the United States as a little boy and your continued refusal to acknowledge the seriousness of Kappa Gamma's own Nazi-style salute disrespects and insults the memories of those who died at those Holocaust camps, the
Netherland Jews who suffered at the hands of German Nazis.
After the German invasion of the Netherlands in May 1940, a civil
administration was installed under SS auspices. Arthur Seyss-Inquart was
appointed Reich Commissar. He presided over a German administration
that included many Austrian-born Nazis. They in turn supervised the
Dutch civil service. This arrangement was to prove fateful for the Jews
of the Netherlands.
During 1940, the German occupation authorities banned Jews from the
civil service and required Jews to register the assets of their business
enterprises. In January 1941, the German authorities required all Jews
to register themselves as Jews. A total of 159,806 persons registered,
including 19,561 persons born of mixed marriages. The total included
some 25,000 Jewish refugees from the German Reich. A Jewish council was
established in February 1941.
The arrests of several hundred young Jews (sent to the Buchenwald and Mauthausen
concentration camps) led to a general strike by Dutch workers on
February 25, 1941, and a hardening of Nazi policy. The German
authorities and their Dutch collaborators segregated Jews from the
general Dutch population, and incarcerated 15,000 Jews in
German-administered forced-labor camps. The Germans then ordered the
concentration of Jews in Amsterdam and sent foreign and stateless Jews to the Westerbork
transit camp in the northeast part of the country. Some of the
remaining provincial Jews were sent to the Vught camp. As of April 29,
1942, Jews were required to wear a yellow Star of David on their
clothing.
Deportations of Jews from the Netherlands began in the summer of
1942. The last train left Westerbork for Auschwitz on September 3, 1944.
During these two years, the Germans and their Dutch collaborators
deported 107,000 Jews, mostly to Auschwitz and Sobibor,
where they were murdered. Only 5,200 survived. In addition,
25,000-30,000 Jews went into hiding, assisted by the Dutch underground.
Two-thirds of Dutch Jews in hiding managed to survive.
The geography of the Netherlands made escape difficult. The ruthless
efficiency of the German administration and the willing cooperation of
Dutch administrators and policemen doomed the Jews of the Netherlands.
Less than 25 percent of Dutch Jewry survived the Holocaust.
Carl, by sweeping under the rug what your own Kappa Gamma brothers did you manage to disrespect the memory of your own motherland by making light of it. Out of the 107,000 Netherland Jews that were sent to concentration camps, only 5,200 survived. But you insist the KG's salute was nothing.
Carl, you managed to defile the memory of your motherland and your Netherland ancestors in one full sweep by
essentially laughing about the KG's Nazi-style salute.
Here are some pictures to make you laugh! We the Kappa Gamma Brothers
do have our own salution–a gesture of our own that is as ancient as it
is modern! It is an incognito salution–I shall never tell you our secret!
A load of bull, Carl. Completely dishonest and disingenuous regarding this salutation. Just like that young soccer pro at age 20 who did the Nazi salute in full public view, he didn't understand the gravity of doing that. Others around him were visibly disturbed by his saluting out on the soccer field. He continued to do that even while an older and wise man tried to pull his arm down to get him to stop doing the stupid Nazi-style salute. The young soccer pro was completely clueless and didn't understand the seriousness of doing that Nazi salute. Neither did the group of 35 young, Kappa Gamma men in their early 20s, who didn't understand the folly and seriousness of doing a Nazi-style salute in a group photo, too. Otherwise, if that salute is not a big deal, then I challenge you and all the KG brothers to do another group photo doing the exact same salute that was
done in 1989.
But you and your KG brothers will never, ever do that in a million years because you and they KNOW it is not right. You know it is not right to do that in public or in private within the confines of the KG's fraternity walls. Your
recent comment is a startling revelation because you appear or seem to imply that this type of Nazi-style salute is done all the time within the confines of the KG's private areas? And that KG brothers are required to do that kind of salute to each other? Just like Hitler's troops and officers who were required to do that back during pre-WWII and during WWII? Are you saying that KG is still secretly doing that type of Nazi-style salute today??
Utterly unreal, Carl.
Keep digging. Keep going to bat for them, Carl. I'd would rather see a much better and improved Kappa Gamma fraternity for them to own up to their own history and move forward and finally deserve the respect and recognizance. You're not helping, Carl.
